The Little Island that Could
Michael Hofmann
Brexit – silly, sappy, snappy word – is not a fact, not an event. It’s a condition. It’s the new weather. Brexitosis is what it is. One would rather just groan, or scream, or swear, or feel seasick about the whole thing. All we know is there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s in the future, and it’s in the past, it’s both something that happened yonks ago (maybe hard feelings left over from 1066, or the Field of the Cloth of Gold, or Malplaquet), and something that is promised still to happen. Hence our peculiar helplessness and strickenness. You can’t fix it in the past, and you can’t fix it in the future. It’s like coming round after an operation – when they took out the wrong organ, and then went and left some of their ironmongery in you, for good measure – and swearing, not like a trooper (I don’t think troopers even swear), but like a patient.
None of the major players is having a good Brexit. (As indeed there is no good Brexit. The underwhelming Corbyn now scores worse than May, which takes some doing. Or in his case, no doing.) Only the experts and the commentators. We live for the cartoons, because we’re living in a cartoon. Everything is one toilet, one stinking corpse, one unending Zeno-esque funeral pageant for one undead ghoul in leopardskin fuck-me pumps on the cliffs of Dover. If the country had any sense, it would put itself under the command of Colonel Steve Bell.
The British – or rather the English – the clever old English have devised a Sonderweg of their very own. Their shot at ‘separate development’. We have Limey exceptionalism. Capitalism in one country. The little island that could. We – they, we, you, who knows – can look forward to a future of dandelion and burdock, Tunnocks wafers, salt and vinegar crisps, sherbet fountains. Bovril. Camp coffee. Moth-eaten sweaters. A hundred and one ways with a parsnip. But the morale, the spirit, the nation! Magnifique!
The British de-accessioning that began globally soon after the First World War continues. Once, it was an external process, now it is internal. It’s a galloping, seemingly unstoppable condition. We’re not giving away far-flung possessions any more, not de-accessioning, we’re sticking fingers in our eyes, ripping open our mouths, pulling off our ears and our genitals, giving away fingers and toes, arms and legs, heads, trunks. Perhaps this will cost them – us, you – Scotland and the North of Ireland. The car industry, if there is one. Pharmaceuticals. Financial ‘services’. The Scilly Isles. The Isle of Man. Cornwall. Wales. England is rumping itself, it’s done it before, it will be Joseph of Arimathea’s mystical fortress of Tintagel, a little pocket in the Forest of Dean (all hail, great shade of Dennis Potter) or in the marshes of Ely (salaam, Boadicea). Rutland.
If it’s vassalage they – we, you – ’re afraid of, then I can offer you the choice between the American aircraft carrier of yore, or a Chinese artificial island founded on slow-release poison. Vape your chlorinated chicken and then go frack in your garden. Says Voltaire. Meanwhile, little specialisms flake away to abroad, areas of tremendous expertise, gain-bringing or future-oriented collaborations, things of immense subtlety and delicacy, established by decades of thought, imagination and law, all gone or going. What do they – we, you – think will be left? Inward investment? Here? Don’t make me laugh.
I’m German. I came to England in 1961 and grew up here. Apart from two years in America, my entire education and upbringing was here, twelve years at school, six years at university. Then freelancing in London, since the 1980s. Does that make me what – a dreamer? DACA? Or just persona non grata? ‘Der hässlische Deutsche’ is an expression from the First World War, the ugly German; well, thanks for showing me the ugly Englishman. Nice of you. I don’t want to special plead. I don’t want anything for myself that isn’t extended to a Polish builder, a Bulgarian student, a Danish nurse, a Portuguese web designer. If it’s no go for them, it’s no go for me either.
The EU is not so much about trade – though it is that as well – as it is about freedom and peace. An extension of ‘we’, not a curtailing of it. Solidarity. Common purpose. Of a region. Are we – you, they, we – so different? So incomparably better? It’s about being a force for good in the world, a place slightly less rivalrous, less unfair, less short-sighted, less bristling with arms, less overrun by special interests than the places around it. In its weakness is its strength. Its divergence is its coherence.
At best, at very best, Brexit is a perfect irrelevance. Either it has nothing to do with our – their, your – actual problems, or it will make them worse. Austerity, inequality, lack of foresight, lack of common purpose, democratic accountability. Our difficulties are planetary and grave; for a nation to claim it has – or in Britain’s case, is – the answer, is simply dishonest. A cage or a card or a wall is not the point. Do you trust the Home Office not to cock this up as well? Take a bow, Baron Windrush. Gag on your nationhood app, now free to Android users. The world is converging. It is mixing, has mixed, and will continue to mix. This isn’t a great time for nation states. It’s hard to think of one that’s doing well. Not even Canada. Maybe Ireland? Maybe New Zealand?
The standards, laws, rights, protections and improvements of the last forty years have come from Europe. Whence the strange English faith in the selfless probity, wisdom and insightfulness of their ruling class? What’s this fantasy about being on the outside and retaining one’s influence and one’s freedom to act independently? With one flat-topped aircraft-carrier. So coolly unattached and so desirable, and always nyet? The world needs more internationalism, not less. More co-operation, not less. Remember the ozone hole? Something fixed it, possibly. We fixed it. Now the oceans are full of plastic. Our chemicals are in the air and soil and ground water everywhere.
As a species, we are a record success. To the detriment of all other species, and our own. A few billionaires – 26 of them – own half of everything. (They’ll be wanting a species of their own before long, all to themselves.) The frogs are full of progesterone. Somewhere, everywhere, there is the last this, the last that. Before long, the last naturalist. Almost every country one can think of is being led in exactly the wrong direction by exactly the wrong people. It may not be unprecedented, but it certainly feels unprecedented. Unpresidented. Brazil? Italy? Poland? Russia? Turkey? Australia? India? The Philippines? The great (small) unmentionable? I could go on.
Brexit is mean and stupid. It started off as a very few people’s practical joke at, they say, the LSE, was turned into a conspiracy by a cabal of subsequently thoroughly discredited (and some of them never credited in the first place) politicians with their hands at each other’s throats, then became a locked-in nightmare for an entire country and area of the globe. Worldwide, who else apart from Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and the late Steve Bannon thinks it’s a good idea? Shouldn’t that worry you – them, us? Have your misanthropic Brexit, and then – what – a tourist industry?
A mendacious faux patriotism has been promoted: now it’s the scoundrel’s first port of call. It isn’t compatible with English friendliness abroad or solidarity at home. Is Brexit going to happen in some soft form, in some mild way – or ‘be delivered’, in Mayspeak – on 29 March, or later, after some bitterly contested picayune postponement, and we – you, they, we – say, ‘it’s all right, we don’t really mean it, we still kind of like you’? I don’t think so. What would be the point of such an unassertive, doesn’t-matter-anyway kind of assertion? Why not bring on the full English? ‘It’s not,’ as America’s last president used to say (an expression sounding now desperate in its pathos and utter goneness: heartbreaking), ‘who we’ – you, they – ‘are.’
Comments
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7 February 2019
at
10:12am
Joe Morison
says:
It seems like karma for empire. Not long ago the sun never set on us, we pillaged the world and persuaded ourselves our innate superiority justified it. Now, we've no empire but that belief in our specialness remains. Perhaps the price we will pay for Brexit (even if we don't leave, we've still taken a massive hit) will at last rid us of our delusion. The trouble is that unless we have a hard Brexit, the true believers will blame it all on our remaining ties; but even if we do get the exit the zealots want, they will never own the consequences - it will be the fault of the EU, or 'Remoaners', or some ill defined global elite, anything other than Brexit. We can hope that in the end the truth will out, but it's hard to hope in the face of such obdurate stupidity and contempt.
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7 February 2019
at
4:51pm
Tanvyeboyo
says:
@
Joe Morison
You really are leaving, I'm afraid. There is no turning back.
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8 February 2019
at
5:10am
Joe Morison
says:
@
Tanvyeboyo
It’s certainly looking more likely, but it’s not over till it’s over. Corbyn appears to be going to May’s aid; but, perhaps, as Steve Bell suggests today, it’s a cunning ploy to sink her - and, having shown his Leave supporters that he’s done all he can, he’ll say May’s intransigence means another referendum is the only way forward. I think that if that was his plan he’d have taken Starmer, not the Rasputin Milne, with him when he met May; but events, dear boy, may force his hand. The bookies are offering 9/2 on a second referendum, there’s still hope.
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9 February 2019
at
6:27pm
L.Souchong
says:
@
Joe Morison
Brexit proponents will fight tooth & nail against another referendum because they know they would lose it. Any form of brexit could considerably reduce future voting numbers. But even a majority of one could keep this freak show on the road, the brexit wheel turning. This is democracy?
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7 February 2019
at
3:15pm
mauisurfer
says:
you say:
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7 February 2019
at
4:14pm
Joe Morison
says:
@
mauisurfer
It’s a firmly embedded belief in everyone who dispassionately follows the information flows available to us. You can go on all you like about Putin not supporting Brexit, that’s your job, but don’t expect anybody here to believe you.
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7 February 2019
at
4:55pm
Tanvyeboyo
says:
@
mauisurfer
Let's just say he's not visibly anti-Brexit:
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7 February 2019
at
5:17pm
stevenally
says:
Yeah, whatever. There are too many people excluded from the EU's "Solidarity" and "Common purpose". Which are a fiction by the way. Just ask Greece or Ireland or Cyprus. Thrown to the wolves. History will show that Merkel and the Germans destroyed the EU with their handling of the financial crisis. Where was the "Solidarity" there?
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7 February 2019
at
7:35pm
Joe Morison
says:
@
stevenally
I don’t think most people who are horrified by Brexit feel that way because they are starry eyed about the EU. If it wasn’t for what’s happening, we’d be full of the criticisms you’ve mentioned, and others; but now is not the time.
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11 February 2019
at
7:13pm
freshborn
says:
@
Joe Morison
The problems of inequality and oppression are far better dealt with inside supranational institutions like the EU, divided we will be defeated."
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13 February 2019
at
5:36am
Joe Morison
says:
@
freshborn
The reason it’s not just an inane catchphrase is that, as you say elsewhere, “ecological problems will only be solved by the world as a whole” (& it’s not just ecological problems that need a unified world approach) but then you go on, bizarrely, to suggest that this “world as a whole” will “not [be] coalitions of continents”. Of course, in some distant Elysian future, we all aspire to ‘sing in perfect harmony’ as part of a glorious unity; but how can you possibly hope to get there if not by slowly forming bigger and bigger coalitions which over time naturally merge? Further, it’s only from within supranational institutions that we can hope to build something powerful enough to resist global capital - little countries on their own have no chance.
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13 February 2019
at
5:36am
Joe Morison
says:
@
freshborn
The reason it’s not just an inane catchphrase is that, as you say elsewhere, “ecological problems will only be solved by the world as a whole” (& it’s not just ecological problems that need a unified world approach) but then you go on, bizarrely, to suggest that this “world as a whole” will “not [be] coalitions of continents”. Of course, in some distant Elysian future, we all aspire to ‘sing in perfect harmony’ as part of a glorious unity; but how can you possibly hope to get there if not by slowly forming bigger and bigger coalitions which over time naturally merge? Further, it’s only from within supranational institutions that we can hope to build something powerful enough to resist global capital - little countries on their own have no chance.
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7 February 2019
at
11:07pm
SandyTB
says:
Please note that there is no such place as "the Scilly Isles". There is Scilly, and there are the Isles of Scilly, but the Scilly Isles, like seagulls, do not exist
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7 February 2019
at
11:59pm
mauisurfer
says:
Here is what Putin actually said about Brexit when he was asked at his annual news conference:
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8 February 2019
at
9:44am
Stu Bry
says:
The idea that Brexit is a parochial folly is very naive. It is part of the same discontent that drove Scottish independence close to a majority, that has seen rioting all over France for months, that has launched populists into power in Italy, that is shifting Germany to the right and has polarised American politics to the outliers of Trump and Ocasio-Cortez.
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8 February 2019
at
2:19pm
Simon Wood
says:
@
Stu Bry
Four powerful paras, Stu. I hadn't seen the Kundera letter and I have to say I giggled at the signatories - this was truly la crème de la crème. But may I say I liked Viginia Woolf in the 1960s - I thought she was on something, not just onto something.
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8 February 2019
at
3:55pm
Stu Bry
says:
My response to that is Blair, Osborne, Merkel, Macron.
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9 February 2019
at
12:25am
Amateur Emigrant
says:
@
Stu Bry
Lumping Scottish independence along with Brexit, Trump, Italy and right-wingers in Germany shows the weakness of your grasp on this populism thing, and believing Westminster is more reformable than Brussels just holes your ship below the water line. A choice between the UK and the EU may be one between two evils, but faced with the choice of Europe or a Brexitised UK, a majority of Scots would choose Europe. Have Johnson or Mogg ever set foot north of the border other than to shoot grouse? Farage has and I doubt he’ll be back in a hurry. Nobody’s got any time for Blair any more either, nor Osborne. Merkel and Macron are far from perfect, but like I say, given the choice...
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10 February 2019
at
10:45am
Joe Morison
says:
@
Stu Bry
You “believe that Westminster is simpler to reform than the EU bureaucracy so [...] the logical thing to do is leave the EU and focus on electing a progressive government to Westminster”. Perhaps you are right, perhaps not - you give no reasons to justify your belief. But even if you’re right, that is no reason to abandon our European comrades: the left wing project is internationalist or it is nothing - the EU gives us the opportunity to reform all of Europe, that should be our goal.
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11 February 2019
at
7:02pm
freshborn
says:
@
Joe Morison
"Abandoning our comrades"?!?!?! Right now the British contingent in Brussels is aligned with the anti-semites in Hungary and Poland, I think perhaps they are better off without us.
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13 February 2019
at
5:54am
Joe Morison
says:
@
freshborn
You seem to think that by ‘abandoning our comrades’ I meant that our government will not be there to help out other EU governments; whereas I’m talking about we, the socially minded people of this country, having a duty of solidarity with our European siblings. There is plenty to be proud about in our past, and those of us who follow in those traditions should be uniting with those who feel the same across Europe - we have much to give and much to learn.
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13 February 2019
at
5:54am
Joe Morison
says:
@
freshborn
You seem to think that by ‘abandoning our comrades’ I meant that our government will not be there to help out other EU governments; whereas I’m talking about we, the socially minded people of this country, having a duty of solidarity with our European siblings. There is plenty to be proud about in our past, and those of us who follow in those traditions should be uniting with those who feel the same across Europe - we have much to give and much to learn.
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8 February 2019
at
3:58pm
Graucho
says:
What appears to have happened in both the referendum and the U.S. election, as is born out by the high turnouts, is that the winning side managed to identify a group of marginalised, alienated and disaffected voters who felt forgotten and normally didn't vote. Yes, the victors peddled a bunch of falsehoods to win them over, but should we blame the winners or blame the losers for having forgotten and marginalised these voters in the first place? I shuddered when I heard Clinton describe Trump supporters as "basket of deplorables". I wince when I read the musings of the Euro federalists who regard the common folk who do not share their glorious vision of the Euro super state as an obstacle to be surreptitiously finessed. The ever increasing gap between the haves and the have nots ushered in by the neo cons, the real deplorables, has generated a powder keg. Keep your tin hat handy.
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9 February 2019
at
11:21am
rgst
says:
The people , in the form of voters in a referendum , started this.
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10 February 2019
at
9:38am
letmeoffthisplanet
says:
Fail to comprehend how anybody could find anything said by Rees- Mogg, Johnson or Farage as having relevance outside a Mad Hatters’ Tea Party! Still, enough have to make Brexit a reality. It certainly is a complicated way of ensuring Little Britain becomes even smaller, and the sad thing is the proponents will find they will still be marginalised and powerless. The essential problem is there are simply too many of us and too many of us have burgeoning expectations that no system of government devised so far can manage.
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12 February 2019
at
6:48pm
Donald Raeson
says:
@
letmeoffthisplanet
Oh please, what's with all this Celt and Angle nonsense?!
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12 February 2019
at
6:48pm
Donald Raeson
says:
@
letmeoffthisplanet
Oh please, what's with all this Celt and Angle nonsense?!
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10 February 2019
at
10:35am
Murphy
says:
First of all,Herr Hofmann is so apt when he writes that'Brexit is a condition',because Brexit has not been caused from the outside.
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11 February 2019
at
6:47pm
freshborn
says:
@
Murphy
I doubt the US would have sanctioned Greece and backed a coup against their elected government for leaving the Euro, so not sure how it relates to Venezuela.
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10 February 2019
at
3:44pm
Timothy Rogers
says:
Michael Hofmann has a well-earned reputation as a gifted poet, and his talents as a translator and literary critic (often a salty-and-vinegary one) are also manifest. No wonder then that this piece is an exemplar of the beauty of rhetorical excess, abundant malign metaphor, and a general sock in the face of Brexiteers. Keep piling it on – the cheerleaders of the Brexit movement/moment deserve it, but I’m afraid that many of them will crawl out of the muck they’ve created and manage to advance their own careers, whatever the consequences of their foolish actions. I hope I’m wrong.
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10 February 2019
at
4:46pm
XopherO
says:
Just a few observations. The xenophobia and racism were always there, in England anyway, particularly in the provinces, which those who spend their lives in cosmopolitan London don't see. My wife is French, and we spent our professional lives in the Midlands. Hardly a day went by without my wife experiencing some kind of Francophobia, directly, in the press (yes even the Guardian - why did it ever leave Manchester?), or on TV from commentators or the likes of Bob Monkhouse. It was very distressing for her, and we could only imagine how much worse it was/is for black people. As they say...like Blackpool goes through rock. The Brexit vote has only made the xenophobes and racists bolder. The lettering in the rock thicker. In fact you can argue that the UK has been sick and rotting for a long time now, but it is certainly not what those who voted leave are trying to heal - no, they are manifesting it with impunity.
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12 February 2019
at
7:10pm
Donald Raeson
says:
@
XopherO
You seem to be under the impression that when the Guardian had Manchester in front of its name no one outside the city could read it. In regard to the benighted provinces, here's a more nuanced view:https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-uk-major-cities-2842870-Jun2016/
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12 February 2019
at
7:10pm
Donald Raeson
says:
@
XopherO
You seem to be under the impression that when the Guardian had Manchester in front of its name no one outside the city could read it. In regard to the benighted provinces, here's a more nuanced view:https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-uk-major-cities-2842870-Jun2016/
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13 February 2019
at
1:39pm
XopherO
says:
@
Donald Raeson
I was being a bit provocative about the Guardian. I do remember when it was the Manchester Guardian and was the only paper to come out against the Suez invasion. and I was the only pupil in my class. I think over the years since it lost the 'Manchester' it has become increasingly London-centric, and less distinctive. My uncle wrote short stories for it and had several published, including republication in the annual Bedside Guardian. I was not intending to criticise Manchester, far from it! But I stick by my comments on the inherent xenophobia which is so ingrained people don't even notice it! We had to point it out many tines.
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13 February 2019
at
1:39pm
XopherO
says:
@
Donald Raeson
I was being a bit provocative about the Guardian. I do remember when it was the Manchester Guardian and was the only paper to come out against the Suez invasion. and I was the only pupil in my class. I think over the years since it lost the 'Manchester' it has become increasingly London-centric, and less distinctive. My uncle wrote short stories for it and had several published, including republication in the annual Bedside Guardian. I was not intending to criticise Manchester, far from it! But I stick by my comments on the inherent xenophobia which is so ingrained people don't even notice it! We had to point it out many tines.
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11 February 2019
at
5:22pm
Marmaduke Jinks
says:
Gracious me what a mean-spirited whinge! Clearly those ignorant bigots have got it all wrong here and you’re just the chap to haul them over the coals.
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12 February 2019
at
5:38pm
Timothy Rogers
says:
@
Marmaduke Jinks
I don't know about the Italians and Greeks, but as to the Hungarians Viktor Orban has made a good living posing as the point-man for "illiberal democracy" (i.e., right-wing, authoritarian government that imposes controls on the press, the judiciary, and any institution that might bed critical of him). And yet he has never rejected the generous EU "development funds" dumped on Hungary before and during his tenure (after all, he can throw these back to his pals as contracts and build a few more soccer stadiums). He fits in with a long line of Hungarian rulers mistreating the country's minorities under the guise of protecting ethnic purity.
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11 February 2019
at
6:36pm
freshborn
says:
I revile nothing more than these hand-wringing, virtue-signalling, knee-jerk love letters written to a faceless neoliberal conglomerate. This pseudo-progressive bilge belongs in a centrist tabloid, not the LRB.
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12 February 2019
at
10:46am
XopherO
says:
Gosh, when the Leavers get going the rhetoric gets gross. Actually, I don't recognise these pictures of contributors here. But maybe Britain (sorry, England) will be great like it once was as I heard a Leaver say recently in a TV vox-pop. I am not sure what he meant, but perhaps he thinks England can win the World Cup without the constraints of the EU. After all, in 1966, still free...and about to devalue. They stuffed Wilson without Juncker and Merckel.
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23 February 2019
at
2:10am
Doc TH
says:
As an American of Irish descent - with all that entails - , I am amused by the fact that one of the major "sticking points" is the Irish border issue. My grandmother (RIP) would have been even more amused if she had seen this. What goes around, comes around.
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26 February 2019
at
4:36pm
toby
says:
Much of what you say is true but much betrays a misunderstanding. Brexit may be irrational in economic terms (as conducted by the current crop of incompetents) and may be fraught with dangers of swapping one dependency for another even less palatable one. But we know that rulers cannot be trusted and that's why we prefer to keep them close - keep your friends close and your enemies closer, as they say. We can dispose of our elected rulers and we can periodically riot or otherwise revolt against the less visible establishment. We know them.
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28 February 2019
at
12:45am
John-Albert
says:
We're all Germans, Michael.
Read moreIt's going to be interesting in a way it hasn't been since the 17th century. Maybe interesting is not the word. England is going to look into its soul. Like other souls, it's a mixed bag, but it needs looking at.
Good luck and farewell and don't take it out on the Scots, Irish, usual suspects.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2019/feb/07/steve-bell-on-jeremy-corbyns-brexit-offer-to-theresa-may-cartoon?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
"who else apart from Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and the late Steve Bannon thinks it’s a good idea?"
I am unaware that Putin ever thought or said that brexit is a good idea.
Please provide some support for your statement.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/good-news-theresa-may-has-a-backer-for-her-brexit-deal-bad-news-it-is-vladimir-putin-1-5826720
Brexit was a mistake for Britain in spite of all that, but the EU is not some sort of Utopia. It's just a way for the global rich to get globally richer.
Brexit is part of a hideous right-wing nationalist racist wave that is sweeping across the world, it will be the new fascism if we let it. The problems of inequality and oppression are far better dealt with inside supranational institutions like the EU, divided we will be defeated.
The EU is very far from perfect, but at the moment it’s worth fighting for.
Apart from the inane catchphrase, on what basis do you say that? Given that the EU has stymied the left-wing repeatedly and allows genuinely fascistic leaders in Hungary and Poland to do what they like, not to mention paying the Islamofascists in Turkey to trap refugees within their borders? Why would a globalist free trade organisation care about inequality and oppression? Do the World Bank and IMF tackle the problem of inequality? Has NAFTA limited oppression?
You aren't fighting for anything, you're just fighting against ... not even against xenophobia, but a loose metonym for xenophobia.
The EU as an institution is not to blame for the shit that has been going down recently, that’s happened for reasons we probably agree with which in the end boil down to inequality; but what do you think would have happened if it hadn’t existed? If anything, the nationalist populism that has swept Europe would have been worse as, instead of attacking the EU, the forces of dissension sought to revive old nationalist grievances that they claim as part of their national stories - can’t you just imagine, if there had been no EEC, Farage leading an English nationalist party seeking the break-up of the UK and sowing hostility towards the Scots and Welsh? As there is so much resentment felt towards Germany, without the EU the first thing it would have to do is build a big army; that never ends well.
You complain about the EU allowing genuinely fascistic leaders in Hungary and Poland to do what they like; I ask again, what do you think would have happened in those countries if the EU hadn’t been around to impose the checks it did? Ask the persecuted communities there whether or not they are glad they are in the EU, you will only get one reply.
The EU is a lot more than just a globalist free trade organization, but how could it avoid being in part such a creature when globalist free trade rules the world? Even so, it was set up by people who above all wanted to stop another war, who wanted us to come together in cooperation. Most importantly, though, it is democratic; in the end, every official owes their position, at the start of the chain, to someone appointed by an elected official. Change the politics of Europe in the right direction and the EU will shift, it is then that our unity will matter.
As for what I’m fighting for, I suspect it’s fairly similar to what you are - it’s a matter of tactics. You seem to think we can only come together once we have all come apart, everything I’ve learnt from history and life tells me you are profoundly wrong.
The EU as an institution is not to blame for the shit that has been going down recently, that’s happened for reasons we probably agree with which in the end boil down to inequality; but what do you think would have happened if it hadn’t existed? If anything, the nationalist populism that has swept Europe would have been worse as, instead of attacking the EU, the forces of dissension sought to revive old nationalist grievances that they claim as part of their national stories - can’t you just imagine, if there had been no EEC, Farage leading an English nationalist party seeking the break-up of the UK and sowing hostility towards the Scots and Welsh? As there is so much resentment felt towards Germany, without the EU the first thing it would have to do is build a big army; that never ends well.
You complain about the EU allowing genuinely fascistic leaders in Hungary and Poland to do what they like; I ask again, what do you think would have happened in those countries if the EU hadn’t been around to impose the checks it did? Ask the persecuted communities there whether or not they are glad they are in the EU, you will only get one reply.
The EU is a lot more than just a globalist free trade organization, but how could it avoid being in part such a creature when globalist free trade rules the world? Even so, it was set up by people who above all wanted to stop another war, who wanted us to come together in cooperation. Most importantly, though, it is democratic; in the end, every official owes their position, at the start of the chain, to someone appointed by an elected official. Change the politics of Europe in the right direction and the EU will shift, it is then that our unity will matter.
As for what I’m fighting for, I suspect it’s fairly similar to what you are - it’s a matter of tactics. You seem to think we can only come together once we have all come apart, everything I’ve learnt from history and life tells me you are profoundly wrong.
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let them decide this for themselves, this is none of our business, or else they might accuse us of wrongdoing again
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and here is the fuller context of Putin's answer to the question:
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How will Brexit impact us? The impact will be minimal, but it will affect the entire European economy and the global economy, as well. Therefore, it will affect us indirectly.
Are we interested in restoring full relations with the United Kingdom or not? Yes, we are interested; besides, in my opinion, the United Kingdom, primarily its business community, is also interested in this.
We know the British work in our country – fairly actively, I can tell you. Flagships of the British economy like British Petroleum, one of the key shareholders in our leading oil and gas company, Rosneft, – they are working here, and continue to do so, actively operating in our market, and they want to continue, and not just them.
Now, in connection with Brexit – if this eventually goes through to the end, and, by the way, I understand the position of the Prime Minister, she is fighting for Brexit (let them decide this for themselves, this is none of our business, or else they might accuse us of wrongdoing again), but the referendum did take place. So what can she do?
She must implement the will of the people as expressed in the referendum, or that is no referendum at all. Some didn’t like it – and the whole thing goes around and around. Is this democracy? I wonder how the critics of this process will assess the situation if and when some spit on this Brexit deal and carry out all these events again until they satisfy someone.
So what is the point of holding a referendum and what is the meaning of direct democracy? Well, anyway, this is their concern, never mind. But, they are interested in our market, interested in direct partnerships. We did not discuss this with the prime minister, but we discussed it with our colleagues and friends; we have many in Britain, especially among the business people.
. . .
The same applies to Britain: Brexit got the majority vote – but no one wants to implement it. What are they refusing to recognise? The referendum results. Democratic procedures are being dropped out of the equation, and destroyed; their value is being destroyed. That is what is happening there. This is a serious process. I have pointed out that Western analysts are already discussing this matter, both in the States, by the way, and in Britain. We must keep this in mind. But whatever happens, we still need to build bilateral relations. We are willing to. As soon as possible. As soon as the other side is ready, we will do this.
Advanced economies are no longer delivering acceptable quality of life to increasing proportions of the population. Different nations have different outlets for this discontent in already existing anti establishment movements but there is a common thread of a strong desire for change to create a fairer society. That the majority of liberal bourgeois commentators are unable to recognise this is staggering.
The recent letter to the Guardian by Kundera and others was staggering in it's hubris and the complete failure to acknowledge any legitimate grievances with the current European economy.For better or worse it feels like we are on the verge of societal renewal and I suspect the names under that ridiculous letter will be will soon be seen as relics of another age, as alien to contemporary society as Stefan Zweig and Virginia Woolf were to the 1960s.
As for the EU being a "peace project" the question has to be who's peace? We know for sure the answer excludes Serbs, Ukrainians, Yemenis, Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians. It excludes the French fiefdoms of Chad, Mauritania, Niger, Mali and Burkina Faso. And now it also apparently excludes Venezuela with the EU rallying to their master's most recent regime change call.
Very complicated to know whether in or out is best. Could be either. You'd have to really good to know that.
However, simple test - Farage, Johnson, Mogg.
Yes?
Or no?
I believe that Westminster is simpler to reform than the EU bureaucracy so to me the logical thing to do is leave the EU and focus on electing a progressive government to Westminster.
The EU died as project when they decided to collectively punish the Greek people to protect French and German banks.
NB Michael Hofmann, I wasn’t aware the English had colonised our confectionery as well. Tunnocks wafers are Scottish, and we’ve got the dental health to prove it.
Far more important than such airy theoretical posturing is the reality of what is actually happening now. The referendum led to a massive and ongoing rise in hate crime, and great fear and loathing in non-British EU citizens like Michael Hofmann who live here. This seems irrelevant to you, I can only assume that you are not personally effected.
Since the referendum my elder daughter has numerous times (in London!) been told to go back where she came from (which, strictly speaking, is St. Mary’s Paddington, birthplace of two future British monarchs, you can’t get more English - this has never happened to her before). That instruction, and similar vitriol, are now the insults of choice to anyone their twisted minds think doesn’t belong here, they are now heard the whole time in circumstances where they seldom were before; and this upsurge of hate is not some accidental side effect, racism and xenophobia were at the heart of the Leave campaign.
So, I’d really like to know how you can support something which so empowers racists and is causing such misery to so many people?
As for the fractional increase in hate crimes: the blame surely falls on the media, which fixates on and gives a platform to the jingoists. Not the people who simply don't want to be part of a particular trade organisation on the whole, despite its (airy, theoretical) benefits to internationalism.
The rise in hate crimes is not a mere, but a very nasty, fraction (easy for you to so dismiss if you are not personally effected); and it’s worse than the official figures suggest. Just try talking to the people the haters want out, there has been a big rise in the casual insult that such people do not belong, that they should leave; people are feeling unsafe in a way they haven’t before. The first time my daughter was on the receiving end of such poison was the morning after the result, it was from someone coming into the council office she works in to pick up his housing benefit.
It’s absurd to blame the media for this, (elements of) it are just part of the poisonous picture; but even if it was solely the media, so what? It is Brexit that has allowed the media (or what/whoever) to do it, it is a necessary condition, without Brexit this would not be happening.
The rise in hate crimes is not a mere, but a very nasty, fraction (easy for you to so dismiss if you are not personally effected); and it’s worse than the official figures suggest. Just try talking to the people the haters want out, there has been a big rise in the casual insult that such people do not belong, that they should leave; people are feeling unsafe in a way they haven’t before. The first time my daughter was on the receiving end of such poison was the morning after the result, it was from someone coming into the council office she works in to pick up his housing benefit.
It’s absurd to blame the media for this, (elements of) it are just part of the poisonous picture; but even if it was solely the media, so what? It is Brexit that has allowed the media (or what/whoever) to do it, it is a necessary condition, without Brexit this would not be happening.
The people, in a referendum, to endorse or not the outcome of the negotiations will have to decide it.
Until the negotiations are concluded they are in no position to decide.
But the negotiations are not going well...
Its never over until its over...
And its never too late to change your mind.
As a Celt, I find it ironic that this rather petulant attempt to make the rest of the world see that England is as important and special as it believes itself to be, could result in the eventual emergence of a Celtic Confederation that will see Ireland eventually united and, possibly, in some form of amalgamation with Scotland, and even Wales! Then, the Angles can really make whoopee, or whatever other fetishist behaviour that turns on the residual locals, while the rest of us get on with being part of planet Earth
It is an 'inside job',the result of an ignorant gang and poor leadership.
It is the same kind in both UK and Greece,different tribe maybe, of populists who thought that a referendum is some kind of a child's play..But next day found them at the table negotiating with 27 Adults.Ha!
And of course there was no plan B -let alone plan A!!- no engineering escape...
Who cares if Putin or Trump back UK? It is a EU,not a NATO affair. And let me remind you who supported the Greek 'No': Maduro!!!
Look what is happening to Venezuela.This would have been Greece's future outside Euro... But this deal is only half,or maybe a big part of the equation...There would be more,much more to deal with,e.g.
-What's the future of the Erasmus programmes?
-What would be the future of the small Universities? Would they be offering all inclusive courses?! Pay for an undergraduate degree and get a postgraduate Free? or if you bring along a family member you get 50% discount and free meals!??
And Herr Hofmann,free movement is and would be an issue for your adopted country.
We've just spend a long weekend traveling around Central Europe,crossing borders without even having to change currencies..
And it was a fun adventure,quite the opposite of the adventure that this country is having now..
I would use the words of another American President,who said 'There is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know'...
I just hope that History would prove me wrong and we would not witness a country,a Kingdom that once was Big Yesterday, to become Normal Today and Small The Day After...
So more Negotiations, Interventions,
Mediations,Exhortations..what about a Compromise?!
Terribly sorry that you will have to show your passport to get from country to country in the future. I often get the sense that, for middle class remoaners, convenience on Long Weekends is what it all comes down to.
We now live in France to the relief of my wife. There is a lot of ignorant comment about the Gilets Jaunes in the UK. This is a protest that was precipitated by yet another attack on the 'contrat sociale' that has given France one of the most generous social security and pension systems in Europe. Macron cut taxes to the rich by several billion euros and was putting unprogressive taxes up, which would hit the poorer citizens heavily, under a cloak of environmental clap-trap. He was/is cutting teachers in secondary schools to supposedly put more teachers into primary (and save money - they are paid less), but without any coherent argument. The Grand Debat is pure fakery, and the GJs know it - everyone knows it. He has made the Assemblee Nationale (Parliament) even less relevant - he is not far off being and acting like a dictator. However they started out, the GJs have become a 'get rid of Macron' movement. Certainly the extreme right has attempted to take over, and the left has tried to distance themselves, but it remains to be seen how it will turn out. It is not really a manifestation of populism, or only in the sense that it is more like an insurgence, an insurrection - a palish manifestation of all those in 19C Paris, except it began and continues provincially. Let's face it, there is no social contract left in the UK or the USA for any equivalent to the GJs to defend!
A final positive note for Macron: By decree (which has to be eventually confirmed in the AN) he has made a law that maintains the current
rights of UK citizens, as EU citizens, in France in the case of a no-deal - it is time limited, and depends on the UK eventually offering the same to French (indeed all EU) citizens in the UK. It is to the Tory party's shame that the same offer (in case of no-deal) has yet to be made. Will it be a second 'Windrush'?
I live in Manchester and I can tell you that a Londoner moving here would experience no sense of dislocation on the grounds of cultural/ethnic variety.
As for France, it shouldn't be necessary to say this but surely the existence and success of a party like the Front National points to a less than rosy picture there? Every country in Europe has its share of boneheaded racists and I see no reason to make out that the UK/England is special in this respect. Unless of course you believe that all the millions who voted to leave the EU were principally motivated to do so by hatred of foreigners.
I live in Manchester and I can tell you that a Londoner moving here would experience no sense of dislocation on the grounds of cultural/ethnic variety.
As for France, it shouldn't be necessary to say this but surely the existence and success of a party like the Front National points to a less than rosy picture there? Every country in Europe has its share of boneheaded racists and I see no reason to make out that the UK/England is special in this respect. Unless of course you believe that all the millions who voted to leave the EU were principally motivated to do so by hatred of foreigners.
Let us not forget that UKIP picked up 4m votes once. Le Pen is a blot, but apart from distorting the Presidential has gained little ground in terms of representatives in spite of PR - so far. I agree it is stain on the country. I know some people who voted Le Pen, and they really don't have any real explanation when challenged. Xenophobia is not one of reasons, though some are probably racist, which often hails back to the Algerian war.
Let us not forget that UKIP picked up 4m votes once. Le Pen is a blot, but apart from distorting the Presidential has gained little ground in terms of representatives in spite of PR - so far. I agree it is stain on the country. I know some people who voted Le Pen, and they really don't have any real explanation when challenged. Xenophobia is not one of reasons, though some are probably racist, which often hails back to the Algerian war.
Never mind the fact that a significant number of UK citizens have not experienced economic improvement under the EU; many of them quite the reverse. So the economic (neo-liberal) argument is flawed.
And Solidarity? Ask the Italians or the Greeks or the Hungarians what they think of that!
Peace? We’re not leaving NATO are we?
Regionalism? Yes, well, very persuasive. I don’t know about you but I don’t feel very European. I must be thick.
I am looking forward to the adventure of Brexit. At least our future fortunes will be as a result of our own politicians trying (and perhaps failing) to do the best for their own country. I would not rely on Messrs Barnier or Junker doing anything exclusively in the UK’s interest.
Through these three years of blind hysteria, I don't think I've read a single defence of the EU that wasn't (1) utterly condescending and reactionary and (2) suffused with this capitalist, globalist ideology: anything that increases GDP is good and anything that threatens to reduce it (even in the short-term) warrants violent frothing at the mouth.
Money isn't everything. And ecological problems will only be solved by the world as a whole, not coalitions of continents. The EU will be able to achieve as much without us.
The Tories can be held account for the pitiful state of our country, it isn't inherent to Britain that we need to be saved from ourselves. One other interesting point, by the way. Popular opinion (heavily influenced by a right-wing media) is apparently sufficient to write off our socialist opposition -- leaving us no option but to retreat to the comfortable restraints of our superiors in Brussels/Frankfurt. Yet popular opinion is anything but sacrosanct when it takes the form of a referendum result. Perhaps if you fans of globalism unleashed your rabid energy on the Conservative party, we might not be in such an awful situation? Labour also stands for freedom and peace, you know.
Actually, I don't know what Labour stands for these days. I think It did once stand for freedom and peace and a lot more, but then Blair came on the scene. And now it is a mess.
We don't know the ruling caste in Europe - the unelected, unaccountable commissioners, the fig leaf parliamentarians, the anonymous institutions with acronyms are resonant of Orwell.
As one of my kids observed - "I can put a brick through my MP's window. I know where he lives. I've no idea who my MEP is, what he or she does, or how they can claim to represent me."
Most who voted for Brexit just want a simple EEC type trade deal with whoever want to do business with us. As to the politics and the domestic regulation, we'd rather deal with our bastards than everyone else's.